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| KateM |
Posted - 30 November 2012 : 23:58:33
I am seeking information on a Rev. James Gilliland, appointed Presbyterian minister at Greenlaw abt 1711. What I do know know is that he was married to Marjory Purves, dau. of Sir Alexander Purves, and from that marriage there were three children: Ann, who married Alexander Redpath; James, the noted silversmith of Edinburgh; and Margaret, about whom I have no information. Though there appears to be quite a bit of information on the Purves and Redpath families, I haven't a clue about the Rev. Gilliland himself -- where he might have come from, his parents, any siblings, descendants in the Greenlaw area, et al. Any information would be much appreciated. |
| 8 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| livcyxingfoe |
Posted - 16 April 2013 : 07:50:49
I know there is a recent story about the Cups. They were sold to raise funds for the Church Building. Years later they were spotted in an Antique Shop in London for sale and our local Lady bought them and returned them to the safe keeping of Greenlaw Church. They are valued at several thousand pounds.
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| carol trotter |
Posted - 10 January 2013 : 23:30:37
The headstones were mostly made from the local sandstone as were many of the older buildings. I will take a picture of the cups the beginning of March when I take them out of the Bank.
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| KateM |
Posted - 10 January 2013 : 13:42:58
Hi again Carol...
What a great story about the return of the Communion Cups. They are obviously intended to call Greenlaw their home. Yes, I would like very much a photo of the Cups. Thank you for the generous offer.
Too bad about the inscriptions being worn away. We have the same problem in this part of the country(the Appalachians). In the colonial era people here used whatever stone was available, mostly fieldstone or limestone,which badly deteriorated over time. In New England people had more access to shipped marble and to granite from places like New Hampshire, plus their graveyards were much more likely to be attached to a church where they could be protected. |
| carol trotter |
Posted - 09 January 2013 : 22:33:04
Thanks for typing all that information. I have Robert Gibson's book and read this info. this morning. I have looked up the BFHS M.I. booklet for the inscription for Alexander Redpath Inscription and it is not there. That means the stone is now illegible, pity. Wonder wht it had said? I have also looked up an earlier inscription of Greenlaw Churchyard and the Alexander Redpath inscription is not there. I see Alexander Redpath was the Schoolmaster.
The next time I get the Communion Cups from the Bank I will look at them closely for Gillilands Mark. Do you want me to take a photo of the Cups. The Church no longer has the Flagons. Pity. I know there is a recent story about the Cups. They were sold to raise funds for the Church Building. Years later they were spotted in an Antique Shop in London for sale and our local Lady bought them and returned them to the safe keeping of Greenlaw Church. They are valued at several thousand pounds. |
| KateM |
Posted - 09 January 2013 : 06:20:58
Hi Carol.
Thanks for any help you could provide.
Now as to the provenance of the Communion cups – and flagons, if you still have those as well. You’ll have to pardon this transcription as I can’t indicate British monetary values, such as the British pound, on my very American keyboard.
From Old Scottish Communion Plate by Thos. Burns, James Macgregor and Alexander J. S. Brook; R & R Clark, 1892:
Pg 620
Greenlaw. Two silver cups engraved “The Property of the Kirk Session of Greenlaw 1786.”
Greenlaw, 1787, Jan 22. Mr Simson reported to the Session that he had commissioned and received two silver Communion Cups with two pewter flagons made by Mr Jas Gilliland Jeweller in Edinburgh the price of which is [pounds]16:10:1 ˝ eight guineas of which he remitted to Mr Gilliland as part of payment and received his receipt. All of which the Session approved of and authorized him to pay the remainder of the account out of the money which is in his hands being [pounds] 7:18:10 and what is awanting of the said sum he is to receive from their Clerk. William Simson,Moderator: Walter Clinkskell, Clerk. – Greenlaw Kirk-Session Records.
Greenlaw, 1787, Nov. 12. Mr. Simson produced a discharge from Mr Gilliland of [pounds] 16:10”1 ˝ being the full price of the silver Cups and pewter flagons mentioned in last sederunt & reported he had paid the [pounds]7:18:10 likewise mentioned in the Sedrt to the said Mr Gilleland[sic] and what was wanting he received from Mr Clinkskell out of the Collection money. William Simson, Modr: Walter Clinkskell Clerk. __Ibid.
James Gilliland, son of the Rev. James, was a noted Edinburgh goldsmith and Sir Henry Raeburn has served as his apprentice. In fact, Raeburn first expressed his talents for painting in portrait miniatures and among his earliest works were portraits of Mr. and Mrs. Gilliland. They are described as watercolor on ivory, set in gilt metal, circa 1775 and are held in private collection, though occasionally exhibited.
Gilliland's marks should be evident on the pieces you have. I have seen an old reproduction of his mark but couldn't really describe it to you. Any expert on silver would be able to verify it, though. The provenance of your Communion cups(and possibly the pewter flagons)should increase their value significantly.
Returning to genealogy for a moment... Following the Rev. James Gilliland's death, he was succeeded by Thomas Turnbull and then Alexander Redpath. Alexander, who died in 1783, married Ann Gilliland, sister of Rev. James. In the book, An Old Berwickshire Town: History of the Town and Parish of Greenlaw,from the Earliest Times to the Present Day, by Robert Gibson, 1905,there was a curious notation:
"Alexander Redpath succeeded. He died in 1783, leaving a widow, Ann Gilliland, sister of the Rev. James Gilliland, minister at Greenlaw. Mr. Redpath was buried in Greenlaw churchyard -- south side. On the tombstone is an interesting inscription of family relationship." Of course the author did not actually provide the inscription!
Anyway, I hope to hear from you again. This is quite the puzzle for me.
Kind regards,
Kate
quote:
Originally posted by carol trotter
Very interesting topic. I live in Greenlaw and Session Clerk for Greenlaw Kirk. We still use the Communion Cups. I have to collect them from the Bank days before Communion. Will try and find out if there is any local information on Rev. Gilliland.
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| carol trotter |
Posted - 08 January 2013 : 23:53:35
Very interesting topic. I live in Greenlaw and Session Clerk for Greenlaw Kirk. We still use the Communion Cups. I have to collect them from the Bank days before Communion. Will try and find out if there is any local information on Rev. Gilliland.
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| KateM |
Posted - 04 December 2012 : 17:16:48
Thanks, Elma. I appreciate the help.
Yes, it does seem the Rev. Gilliland is a bit of a mystery. I've exhausted all the resources I have and still have no clue as to his pedigree. I find that a bit surprising as he must have been an educated man and one might expect some record of his training at a university or the like. Also, his sister Ann lived at Greenlaw, married and raised a family there.
I have been able to find some additional information about the children of Rev. James and Marjory; son James was an Edinburgh goldsmith of note but perhaps even more well-known as the enthusiastic mentor for his apprentice, Sir Henry Raeburn. James Jr himself had entered apprenticeship at a tender age, no doubt due to the early death of his father. That said, it does appear the three children of Marjory and James ended up in Edinburgh.
Ann Gilliland, the sister of the Rev. James, by her husband Alexander Redpath probably still has descendants in or around Greenlaw. They had a sizeable family: John, b. 4 June 1721; James, b. 23 Sept. 1722; Alison, b. 18 Sept 1724; Alexander, b. 27 Sept. 1726; and Margaret, B. 9 Aug. 1728, all born at Greenlaw. There is a record of another son, also born at Greenlaw, named Alexander, b. 14 Sept. 1732, so I assume the first Alexander, born 1726, had passed away.
Anyway, this Gilliland line most likely has descendants in Greenlaw even today -- but so far the Gilliland family's origins remain a mystery. There is one trace of James and Ann still at Greenlaw, perhaps. In 1786 their son James was commissioned to create two silver communion cups for the Kirk Session at Greenlaw.
Thanks again for your assistance.
Kind regards,
Kate |
| epfborders |
Posted - 04 December 2012 : 14:37:44
Kate
there isn't much more info in the Fasti apart from some info on his earlier career in Earlston & Gordon http://www.archive.org/stream/fastiecclesisc02scot#page/18/mode/2up/search/greenlaw
Elma |
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