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 Rev. James Gilliland of Greenlaw, d. 1724
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KateM

USA
10 Posts

Posted - 30 November 2012 :  23:58:33  Show Profile  Visit KateM's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I am seeking information on a Rev. James Gilliland, appointed Presbyterian minister at Greenlaw abt 1711. What I do know know is that he was married to Marjory Purves, dau. of Sir Alexander Purves, and from that marriage there were three children: Ann, who married Alexander Redpath; James, the noted silversmith of Edinburgh; and Margaret, about whom I have no information. Though there appears to be quite a bit of information on the Purves and Redpath families, I haven't a clue about the Rev. Gilliland himself -- where he might have come from, his parents, any siblings, descendants in the Greenlaw area, et al. Any information would be much appreciated.

epfborders

Scotland
51 Posts

Posted - 04 December 2012 :  14:37:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Kate

there isn't much more info in the Fasti apart from some info on his earlier career in Earlston & Gordon http://www.archive.org/stream/fastiecclesisc02scot#page/18/mode/2up/search/greenlaw



Elma
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KateM

USA
10 Posts

Posted - 04 December 2012 :  17:16:48  Show Profile  Visit KateM's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks, Elma. I appreciate the help.

Yes, it does seem the Rev. Gilliland is a bit of a mystery. I've exhausted all the resources I have and still have no clue as to his pedigree. I find that a bit surprising as he must have been an educated man and one might expect some record of his training at a university or the like. Also, his sister Ann lived at Greenlaw, married and raised a family there.

I have been able to find some additional information about the children of Rev. James and Marjory; son James was an Edinburgh goldsmith of note but perhaps even more well-known as the enthusiastic mentor for his apprentice, Sir Henry Raeburn. James Jr himself had entered apprenticeship at a tender age, no doubt due to the early death of his father. That said, it does appear the three children of Marjory and James ended up in Edinburgh.

Ann Gilliland, the sister of the Rev. James, by her husband Alexander Redpath probably still has descendants in or around Greenlaw. They had a sizeable family: John, b. 4 June 1721; James, b. 23 Sept. 1722; Alison, b. 18 Sept 1724; Alexander, b. 27 Sept. 1726; and Margaret, B. 9 Aug. 1728, all born at Greenlaw. There is a record of another son, also born at Greenlaw, named Alexander, b. 14 Sept. 1732, so I assume the first Alexander, born 1726, had passed away.

Anyway, this Gilliland line most likely has descendants in Greenlaw even today -- but so far the Gilliland family's origins remain a mystery. There is one trace of James and Ann still at Greenlaw, perhaps. In 1786 their son James was commissioned to create two silver communion cups for the Kirk Session at Greenlaw.

Thanks again for your assistance.

Kind regards,

Kate

Edited by - KateM on 04 December 2012 17:21:34
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carol trotter

3 Posts

Posted - 08 January 2013 :  23:53:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Very interesting topic. I live in Greenlaw and Session Clerk for Greenlaw Kirk. We still use the Communion Cups. I have to collect them from the Bank days before Communion. Will try and find out if there is any local information on Rev. Gilliland.
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KateM

USA
10 Posts

Posted - 09 January 2013 :  06:20:58  Show Profile  Visit KateM's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi Carol.

Thanks for any help you could provide.

Now as to the provenance of the Communion cups – and flagons, if you still have those as well. You’ll have to pardon this transcription as I can’t indicate British monetary values, such as the British pound, on my very American keyboard.

From Old Scottish Communion Plate by Thos. Burns, James Macgregor and Alexander J. S. Brook; R & R Clark, 1892:
Pg 620
Greenlaw. Two silver cups engraved “The Property of the Kirk Session of Greenlaw 1786.”
Greenlaw, 1787, Jan 22. Mr Simson reported to the Session that he had commissioned and received two silver Communion Cups with two pewter flagons made by Mr Jas Gilliland Jeweller in Edinburgh the price of which is [pounds]16:10:1 ½ eight guineas of which he remitted to Mr Gilliland as part of payment and received his receipt. All of which the Session approved of and authorized him to pay the remainder of the account out of the money which is in his hands being [pounds] 7:18:10 and what is awanting of the said sum he is to receive from their Clerk. William Simson,Moderator: Walter Clinkskell, Clerk. – Greenlaw Kirk-Session Records.
Greenlaw, 1787, Nov. 12. Mr. Simson produced a discharge from Mr Gilliland of [pounds] 16:10”1 ½ being the full price of the silver Cups and pewter flagons mentioned in last sederunt & reported he had paid the [pounds]7:18:10 likewise mentioned in the Sedrt to the said Mr Gilleland[sic] and what was wanting he received from Mr Clinkskell out of the Collection money. William Simson, Modr: Walter Clinkskell Clerk. __Ibid.

James Gilliland, son of the Rev. James, was a noted Edinburgh goldsmith and Sir Henry Raeburn has served as his apprentice. In fact, Raeburn first expressed his talents for painting in portrait miniatures and among his earliest works were portraits of Mr. and Mrs. Gilliland. They are described as watercolor on ivory, set in gilt metal, circa 1775 and are held in private collection, though occasionally exhibited.
Gilliland's marks should be evident on the pieces you have. I have seen an old reproduction of his mark but couldn't really describe it to you. Any expert on silver would be able to verify it, though. The provenance of your Communion cups(and possibly the pewter flagons)should increase their value significantly.

Returning to genealogy for a moment... Following the Rev. James Gilliland's death, he was succeeded by Thomas Turnbull and then Alexander Redpath. Alexander, who died in 1783, married Ann Gilliland, sister of Rev. James. In the book, An Old Berwickshire Town: History of the Town and Parish of Greenlaw,from the Earliest Times to the Present Day, by Robert Gibson, 1905,there was a curious notation:
"Alexander Redpath succeeded. He died in 1783, leaving a widow, Ann Gilliland, sister of the Rev. James Gilliland, minister at Greenlaw. Mr. Redpath was buried in Greenlaw churchyard -- south side. On the tombstone is an interesting inscription of family relationship." Of course the author did not actually provide the inscription!
Anyway, I hope to hear from you again. This is quite the puzzle for me.

Kind regards,

Kate

quote:
Originally posted by carol trotter

Very interesting topic. I live in Greenlaw and Session Clerk for Greenlaw Kirk. We still use the Communion Cups. I have to collect them from the Bank days before Communion. Will try and find out if there is any local information on Rev. Gilliland.


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carol trotter

3 Posts

Posted - 09 January 2013 :  22:33:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for typing all that information. I have Robert Gibson's book and read this info. this morning. I have looked up the BFHS M.I. booklet for the inscription for Alexander Redpath Inscription and it is not there. That means the stone is now illegible, pity. Wonder wht it had said? I have also looked up an earlier inscription of Greenlaw Churchyard and the Alexander Redpath inscription is not there. I see Alexander Redpath was the Schoolmaster.

The next time I get the Communion Cups from the Bank I will look at them closely for Gillilands Mark. Do you want me to take a photo of the Cups. The Church no longer has the Flagons. Pity. I know there is a recent story about the Cups. They were sold to raise funds for the Church Building. Years later they were spotted in an Antique Shop in London for sale and our local Lady bought them and returned them to the safe keeping of Greenlaw Church. They are valued at several thousand pounds.
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KateM

USA
10 Posts

Posted - 10 January 2013 :  13:42:58  Show Profile  Visit KateM's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi again Carol...

What a great story about the return of the Communion Cups. They are obviously intended to call Greenlaw their home. Yes, I would like very much a photo of the Cups. Thank you for the generous offer.
Too bad about the inscriptions being worn away. We have the same problem in this part of the country(the Appalachians). In the colonial era people here used whatever stone was available, mostly fieldstone or limestone,which badly deteriorated over time. In New England people had more access to shipped marble and to granite from places like New Hampshire, plus their graveyards were much more likely to be attached to a church where they could be protected.
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carol trotter

3 Posts

Posted - 10 January 2013 :  23:30:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The headstones were mostly made from the local sandstone as were many of the older buildings. I will take a picture of the cups the beginning of March when I take them out of the Bank.
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Andrew

Germany
5 Posts

Posted - 31 December 2013 :  12:02:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hallo,
My message is to Carlo Trotter and Kate,

Ref Rev James GILLILAND.

The Rev James Gilliland is my get get get Grad father +, and I would be very grateful if you could supple me with any additional information with regard to family and his Son Mr James GILLILAND who lived in Edinburgh.

I also would like to see a picture of the Communion Cups, made by Mr James GILLILAND, what I do find strange is that I am unable to find any pictures of Mr James Gilliland, does anybody have anything fir him or the Rev James Gilliland Please.

I am putting together information so I can visit Greenlaw in the new Year 2014.
If anybody can supply me with information with regard to accommodation in the area I would be most grateful, Thank you.

I hope to hear from someone soon,
wishing everybody a Good and Happy New Year.

Andrew (dowlen)-GILLILAND.


Gilliland. Andrew
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KateM

USA
10 Posts

Posted - 31 December 2013 :  16:49:41  Show Profile  Visit KateM's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hello Andrew...

I have been collecting information on this family but as I am also working multiple Gilliland genealogies, I haven't had the chance to fully organize the material.
The Rev. James' son, as you probably already know, was a noted silversmith in Edinburgh and the mentor of the famed artist Sir Henry Raeburn. I do know that Raeburn, when he was young and still making portrait miniatures, painted portraits of James Jr. and his wife. They are in a private collection but were included in a recent a public exhibition and there is a published catalog.
There are a number of valuable records for James Jr. and his family via the research site Electric Scotland. In fact, I just transcribed his daughter Katharines's obituary from 1824. I will try to organize my material on the family within the next couple of months. I am the owner/administrator for a Gilliland genealogy site, Gilliland Trails, @ www.GillilandTrails.org (It's free.) Since I have my fingers in so many pies I usually have quite a backlog of work to do. I would welcome you to join us! We would really like to hear from you and if you at are at all inclined, to participate in our Gilliland DNA project. We are trying to identify the connections among Gilliland lines from around the world and are making good progress but to date we have had no participants from known Scottish lines.
The photo of the communion cups was taken by Carol so I would prefer she pass along her photo but if she is unable to do so I can furnish copies.
To date I have been unable to track the pedigree for Rev. James and this has been a bit of a disappointment. We've hit what one would call the proverbial brick wall in tracing his roots.

-- Kate

quote:
Originally posted by Andrew

Hallo,
My message is to Carlo Trotter and Kate,

Ref Rev James GILLILAND.

The Rev James Gilliland is my get get get Grad father +, and I would be very grateful if you could supple me with any additional information with regard to family and his Son Mr James GILLILAND who lived in Edinburgh.

I also would like to see a picture of the Communion Cups, made by Mr James GILLILAND, what I do find strange is that I am unable to find any pictures of Mr James Gilliland, does anybody have anything fir him or the Rev James Gilliland Please.

I am putting together information so I can visit Greenlaw in the new Year 2014.
If anybody can supply me with information with regard to accommodation in the area I would be most grateful, Thank you.

I hope to hear from someone soon,
wishing everybody a Good and Happy New Year.

Andrew (dowlen)-GILLILAND.


Gilliland. Andrew

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Andrew

Germany
5 Posts

Posted - 31 December 2013 :  19:49:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi kate,
Thank you for your quick reply.
With regard to the DNA, no problem, just let .me know what I need to do (any cost I will pay).
I have a very long scotish linage,
I hope you are relaxing and having a nice newyear, s evening.
Best Regards,
Andrew.

Gilliland. Andrew
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KateM

USA
10 Posts

Posted - 31 December 2013 :  21:24:55  Show Profile  Visit KateM's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Here's the url for the Gilliland DNA project's main page:
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Gilliland/default.aspx

quote:
Originally posted by Andrew

Hi kate,
Thank you for your quick reply.
With regard to the DNA, no problem, just let .me know what I need to do (any cost I will pay).
I have a very long scotish linage,
I hope you are relaxing and having a nice newyear, s evening.
Best Regards,
Andrew.

Gilliland. Andrew

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Andrew

Germany
5 Posts

Posted - 05 January 2014 :  22:12:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Kate,

Thank you for the info re DNA.

since my previous message re the Cups etc you are the only person who has contacted me to date and I would like to thank you for that.

DNA.
I am a little lost on the info re cost and how far back can beleive they are able to go,
to-date I have been able to go way,way back to around 1250-1300+.

Then there is a gap (which I am working on), then it reconnects to around the year 764 ish, (Scandinavia Vikings/Danes period)

The Vikings started there little invading sometime in the year 500/600 ish period and may be before this.

It is thought they started invading the outer Hebrides, Shetland Islands, then moved south, killing wiping-out over 90% of the original Celtic population.
(There are many supporting documentation for this)

It was not until around 700, when the invading, pillaging/raping started to stop, as many Vikings/Danes married/found partners, many, many scots to-day are in fact one way or another related to the Vikings/Danes, (Scandinavia background),this can also be established via ones DNA test, thats how i know about my connection to the Vikings.(on one side of my family, which is very colourful, thats another story).

A couple of questions, (& sorry for any spelling),

You have been looking at Rev James Gilliland 1699-1724), please can you tell me why?.
I am very much related to him, his son Mr James Gilliland (Goldsmith), lived in Edinburgh (Sir Henry Raeburn was one of his apprentices).
About this period there was another rev James Gilliland 1730-40 ish he went to the USA but he is not related to the Rev James Gilliland who died in 1724.

I beleive you are trying to establish a link back to Scotland, it would help me to know which one of the Rev James Gilliland you think or know you are related/connected before i proceed with the DNA

Gosh i hope you understand the aforementioned.

Best wish's

Andrew.


Gilliland. Andrew
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KateM

USA
10 Posts

Posted - 06 January 2014 :  00:07:11  Show Profile  Visit KateM's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi Andrew…

As the administrator for Gilliland Trails, one of my tasks is to provide research and sources for research for all Gillilands, not just in the U.S. but abroad. That’s why I’m perpetually hip deep in research projects, not to mention maintaining a forum and website. What we have been lacking are family trees from the U.K. and early information is especially hard to locate. So finding the Rev. James of Berwickshire was gratifying as there is at least enough information there to fashion an early family tree. In addition, we are sorely lacking DNA participants from the U.K. which makes it difficult to track the migrations of different DNA groups that we have already identified in the U.S.
I don’t handle questions regarding the DNA Project. Luann Elsinger is the project coordinator. If you go to the link I provided at http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Gilliland/default.aspx you will find the link where you can send her an email.

Regards,

-- Kate

quote:
Originally posted by Andrew

Hi Kate,

Thank you for the info re DNA.

since my previous message re the Cups etc you are the only person who has contacted me to date and I would like to thank you for that.

DNA.
I am a little lost on the info re cost and how far back can beleive they are able to go,
to-date I have been able to go way,way back to around 1250-1300+.

Then there is a gap (which I am working on), then it reconnects to around the year 764 ish, (Scandinavia Vikings/Danes period)

The Vikings started there little invading sometime in the year 500/600 ish period and may be before this.

It is thought they started invading the outer Hebrides, Shetland Islands, then moved south, killing wiping-out over 90% of the original Celtic population.
(There are many supporting documentation for this)

It was not until around 700, when the invading, pillaging/raping started to stop, as many Vikings/Danes married/found partners, many, many scots to-day are in fact one way or another related to the Vikings/Danes, (Scandinavia background),this can also be established via ones DNA test, thats how i know about my connection to the Vikings.(on one side of my family, which is very colourful, thats another story).

A couple of questions, (& sorry for any spelling),

You have been looking at Rev James Gilliland 1699-1724), please can you tell me why?.
I am very much related to him, his son Mr James Gilliland (Goldsmith), lived in Edinburgh (Sir Henry Raeburn was one of his apprentices).
About this period there was another rev James Gilliland 1730-40 ish he went to the USA but he is not related to the Rev James Gilliland who died in 1724.

I beleive you are trying to establish a link back to Scotland, it would help me to know which one of the Rev James Gilliland you think or know you are related/connected before i proceed with the DNA

Gosh i hope you understand the aforementioned.

Best wish's

Andrew.


Gilliland. Andrew


Edited by - KateM on 06 January 2014 00:08:54
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Andrew

Germany
5 Posts

Posted - 10 April 2014 :  12:18:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Kate,

How are you? sorry its been awhile, but with research it takes time, this you know.

I will be in Scotland week of 7th July, this is for the Royal Marines 350th Birthday, (SPEAN BRIDGE). its near Fort William.

I have decided to visit Greenlaw and will be there for 3 days, I explained to the person who I will be staying with my the reason for my visit.

They very kindly gave me the contact information for the Rev Nicholson, he is the current Rev for Greenlaw,And I was also given Carol Trotters telephone number.

I have now managed to talk with Carol and carol has been very helpful.

With some of my questions surrounding the Rev James Gilliland (Gelliand-Purvis) I am not sure how far I will get?. his life is a mystery as is his death, following his untimely death, his wife re-married.

I also take the time and go to Edinburgh, (National Records for Scotland), I have spoken with them and I have been told I hold more records than they do.

The Lyon of scotland, they are next door to the NRS, I was told to visit them, and bring my records as I have more information than they do.


The Scottish church/Holyrood House

As I'm in the area I'm going to visit Holyrood House, I do know several members of my family come from there, as in the church.

My 10th Grt Grt + Grandfather was the 4th Earl of Atholl and held the position of (Lord Chancellor of scotland (P.C.stewart) his wife was Lady/Contest Elizabeth (Gordon).

I will stop there, I can go on as you know.

I hope you are fit and well.

All the best, Andrew



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KateM

USA
10 Posts

Posted - 10 April 2014 :  17:59:43  Show Profile  Visit KateM's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi Andrew....

Sounds like you have a very exciting trip in store -- I envy you! :)Wish you very good luck with your searches. The Rev. James certainly is a mystery and it would be nice to find the key to unlocking it. I look forward to hearing of your trip.

I've actually been under the weather of late and will be going into hospital tomorrow. I don't expect to be doing much genealogy for a few weeks and will concentrate on resting.

By the way, I had forgotten to mention to you a document dated 1638 from the Orkney and Shetland Commissary Court for a Magnus Giland. You had mentioned a possible connection to Vikings of the isles. I have a copy of the document but must confess I find it impossible to decipher!

Well, I have a number of things to do to prepare for tomorrow. Wish you the best for your trip and I'll post again when I'm feeling better or happen to trip across any new leads.

-- Kate



quote:
Originally posted by Andrew

Hi Kate,

How are you? sorry its been awhile, but with research it takes time, this you know.

I will be in Scotland week of 7th July, this is for the Royal Marines 350th Birthday, (SPEAN BRIDGE). its near Fort William.

I have decided to visit Greenlaw and will be there for 3 days, I explained to the person who I will be staying with my the reason for my visit.

They very kindly gave me the contact information for the Rev Nicholson, he is the current Rev for Greenlaw,And I was also given Carol Trotters telephone number.

I have now managed to talk with Carol and carol has been very helpful.

With some of my questions surrounding the Rev James Gilliland (Gelliand-Purvis) I am not sure how far I will get?. his life is a mystery as is his death, following his untimely death, his wife re-married.

I also take the time and go to Edinburgh, (National Records for Scotland), I have spoken with them and I have been told I hold more records than they do.

The Lyon of scotland, they are next door to the NRS, I was told to visit them, and bring my records as I have more information than they do.


The Scottish church/Holyrood House

As I'm in the area I'm going to visit Holyrood House, I do know several members of my family come from there, as in the church.

My 10th Grt Grt + Grandfather was the 4th Earl of Atholl and held the position of (Lord Chancellor of scotland (P.C.stewart) his wife was Lady/Contest Elizabeth (Gordon).

I will stop there, I can go on as you know.

I hope you are fit and well.

All the best, Andrew





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